|
Post by amsterdam on Jul 26, 2016 16:31:29 GMT
(Disclaimer: I realize this thread starts out with a discussion around education, but its end goal is a discussion around vocation and where TiNe's are often found)
Having returned to college, I am slightly overwhelmed by the many possible paths before me. On one hand, I'd almost like to pursue a bachelors in "general studies" so I can pursue all kinds of interests and not specialize in just one area (I would feel pigeon-holed). But I realize society and businesses generally look for specific degrees and backgrounds, regardless of the knowledge and skill found in a "general studies" graduate.
So my questions are: where have you found TiNe? Where have they excelled? What have they tried but ended up hating? What may look appealing to the TiNe, but ends in despair? Conversely, what may look unappealing, but is actually very satisfying? This touches on the whole topic of "specialist" vs. "generalist" as well - do you believe the TiNe would thrive more as a specialist or generalist?
|
|
shieru
New Member
Posts: 24
Type: TiNe
|
Post by shieru on Jul 29, 2016 12:24:59 GMT
I can relate with not wanting to be pigeon-holed into one narrow interest. There are so many fascinating topics after all, and you never know what knowledge from one topic might correlate to that of another to create a completely new avenue of discovery and manifestation. I don't know how you are best inspired (maybe that would be a good thread topic!), but I've noticed that for me, Ne generates a lot of the energy of motivation. Some of the most successfully creative times of my life have been when I'm engaged in learning about several different topics at the same time, but also have expectations (Fe) for intelligent precision (Ti). Overall, junior college was a wonderful experience for me because of this combination. Because of inherent energy limitations, and the fact that one of the aims of Ti is to achieve mastery, I think that it's important for Alemin to develop specialization in their career as well as their hobbies in order to find fulfillment in them. Equally as important, though, is that the particular area of specialization has been developed and honed by the individual to be compatible with their interests and aesthetics. From what I've seen, the Alemin really shines when technical knowledge, opportunity for real-time deduction (such as research), and independent creativity are all part of their work. There are actually quite a few Ti-leads - both TiNe and TiSe - in the field of technical scientific visualization. That has been my specialty, due to the fact that it combines two keen interests; visual art and science. I worked for 2.5 years at a company doing medical animation, where one of my colleagues was TiSe. I've seen quite a few TiSe from Asia in this field as well. Another TiNe who specializes in medical/natural visualization is Mark Kessell. I love his work, it's a kind of haunting symbolic abstraction of reality ( www.studiocyberia.com). In all of these cases, I've heard the same underlying reasons for pursuing this field; the desire to combine art and science, to develop a unique creative technique, and to express truths with precision but also in a way that is engaging. Another line of work I've seen TiNe in is acting and music. We've talked about Alanis Morissette on the CT forum, but there's also Ashley and Elizabeth Olson. There are two other male actors that I can recall as well, but I can't remember their names right now Surprisingly, I've only seen a handful of TiNe in philosophy and psychology, but when they appear they're often masters of their particular niche. Noam Chomsky and Amy Cuddy are two examples which come to mind. While I do think that a research-based career in psychology could be a great fit for a TiNe, actual therapy practice may not. I'm not sure if all of us experience things this way, but for me social interaction is rather draining. Despite any aspirations I may have, the reality is listening to other people's problems all day probably wouldn't work for me. As far as what I've seen TiNe gravitate toward, but not necessarily find success in, science and engineering are the main fields that come to mind. While science may seem a good fit for the analytical, theoretical mind of the Alemin, from what I've found, Ti isn't the best suited for deducing the questions of physical science. It seems Ti exists in its own bubble, detached from the external world, and it mainly functions to achieve internal consistency. This nature, especially when paired with Ne's non-literal perception, makes for very pure ideas that may or may not actually apply to reality. I think, because of its relationship with Fe, Ti is more suited to deducing the realities of humanity, but when it comes to external logistics it lacks an extroverted counterpart which can aide in forming correct judgements. This is not to say that one couldn't compensate for their natural shortcomings, but I think that physical sciences are probably not what Alemin are most naturally adept in.
|
|
|
Post by amsterdam on Jul 29, 2016 21:12:27 GMT
shieru - Your post is very well written and makes a ton sense...it was very helpful to read (thanks!)
I would agree with your observations and they solidify my own opinions. I've actually been looking into UX and UI Design, possibly as a career change, and I think these two related fields could be quite conducive to the TiNe since they require "technical knowledge, opportunity for real-time deduction (such as research), and independent creativity", as you mentioned. In fact, some of the most satisfying times in my career within telecom have come when I was designing and mocking up enhancements/changes to my organizations web tools - the ability to apply principles of human-computer interaction and user experience with new/existing visual ideas, then get to refine/perfect them. Knowing that my efforts improved the user experience, data integrity and tool adoption was satisfying; even my manager at the time, when discussing my educational and career goals, encouraged me to look into this side of things.
However, I'd sure like to get out of telecom and into something that more directly impacts a human and/or social need. This is why CT is so freekin' exciting! I spin between meticulous refining/perfecting of a design/system/tool/program, while incorporating new, innovative ideas that enhance – but the end product must go beyond itself, and be of true benefit to others. Hence Cognitive Type is like the perfect mix! My interest in psychology, cognitive science, social dynamics are all combined into a systematic theory. CT is built upon an empirical foundation (truth, Ti) that requires a system, algorithms, data/databases, visuals, websites, web tools, etc. to eventually accomplish individual and group self-awareness and (hopefully) mental and social harmony (Fe)!
As side notes, I would agree with the music piece - music used to be a very big part of my life, but I determined it would never be more than an enjoyable hobby for me (but who knows what could happen). And yes, I really looked into being a counselor/psychiatrist, but after reading a bunch, interviewing those in the field (or who left the field) and honest feedback about myself from others, I've come to the same conclusion as you (but occasional mentoring/counsel has been satisfying in the past). Finally, yes, I would agree with the hard sciences discussion - I have great respect for and interest in those fields, but not sure I could hack it day-in-day-out...
|
|
shieru
New Member
Posts: 24
Type: TiNe
|
Post by shieru on Jul 30, 2016 11:10:29 GMT
I'm glad you found what I had to say helpful, and that it resonated with your own thoughts UX and UI design sound like a wonderful option. It sounds like you've had some enjoyable experience with UI, so that's a good litmus test for how you might like it as a career. Erifrail and I work in web design quite a lot, actually, and it is quite enjoyable. What we hope to do eventually is a combination of digital design and cognitive type lifecoaching. Might as well try to have it all, right? I agree, CT is freekin' exciting!! For all the reasons you've mentioned! I'd like to get so much more into the development of the theory, as well as plans for practical application. The way people have described being enlightened to a greater capacity for acceptance of others via understanding cognitive type is just amazing. This is an optimistic idea, but it would be so awesome if CT was someday taught in schools, and people came to understand their type at a young age, as well as what the types of others mean. I think this could lead to such a revolutionary (and needed) change in the way we relate to each other, perhaps even updating outdated cultural elements over time. It could at least improve approaches to education and psychology, I think.. but of course this is the way my Fe envisions application (hope for mental and social harmony, as you mentioned.) If it did get incorporated into the present system, it's probable that CT would be treated like MBTI in schools; taken with a grain of salt and not considered when devising educational plans for students. It's cool you've had an interest in music. What sort of experience have you had with it? That's something I've been interested in for a while, but haven't had the chance yet to delve into yet. I wonder what your experience in telecommunications has been as well? Are you a tech that helps set up phone and network systems, or do you do calling?
|
|
|
Post by amsterdam on Aug 1, 2016 16:08:51 GMT
"...a combination of digital design and cognitive type lifecoaching" - sign me up! And I could not agree more with every aspect of your third paragraph. My hope is that CT goes beyond MBTI's current reach and is NOT taken with a grain of salt, not out of competition or anything, but because CT can be backed by scientific findings. Some people will always be closed to the psychological side of things, but if it comes from the realms of neuroscience/cognitive science, I predict less resistance. As far as music: I remember when I was only 5 or 6 being impacted by music quite a bit, always interested in listening to it. In 5th grade, I joined band and regrettably went with saxophone instead of drums and piano (seriously, I still kick myself for that - percussion and piano can be taken almost anywhere, unlike the sax). I played from there through 12th grade, later taking on percussion for marching/pep/concert band when needed. However, what was more important to me was the alternative band I started with some friends around 7th or 8th grade. Among many others, I had always enjoyed classic rock like Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix, as well as the heaviness of my older brother's Metallica and Nirvana albums, so I picked up a cheap electric guitar and started jamming out with a couple friends. Each member brought a lot of different influences and tastes, and we played several concerts for at least 2-3 years. We won a battle of the bands in high school and the award was free studio time, in which we recorded most of an original album (about 6-7 songs). Then, a pretty tragic and complex situation occurred that greatly impacted especially the other members and we began to grow apart, both in our beliefs/values and musical direction. I left the band before graduation and a few of the members kept on. After graduating, I started a sort of solo acoustic "career", playing some very small concerts and recording a small album in my bedroom. Otherwise, I've led contemporary worship music at several churches and events since high school, or filled in on guitar, bass, drums or vocals. Currently, my wife and I talk about putting together our own stuff, a The Civil Wars type feel. (wow...you got me monologuing here)
As far as telecom: I started with no experience as an entry-level Voice Traffic Engineer, managing capacity and projects that dealt with customer voice traffic and routing (it was always interesting to see human behavior at certain locations across the US, based on the data). Have since moved unto more of a business systems analyst role within multiple teams, which is pretty much the person between IT and business users of web tools & databases. So over the last 4-5 years, I've been in more of a support role for each business segment I was a part of, helping to create efficiencies in business processes and promote better decision-making based on using various, from-scratch web tools/databases. Like I mentioned before, these roles have required some unofficial UX/UI design work and testing, which has been satisfying.
|
|
faelyn
New Member
Posts: 13
Type: Fe
|
Post by faelyn on Aug 3, 2016 8:13:37 GMT
its sounds like you had a lot of great connections in highschool! it's wonderful to have a passion like that. i hope you succeed in making your new album! from what i've seen, specialist makes more sense for TiNe: diving wholly into a topic of interest and achieving mastery by it. ~things that have a complex enough set of variables (like music composition, programming, theories) but remain somewhat limited, are attractive to us. if Ti can't feel out the parameters of the landscape, and the domain is one endless continuum, then i don't think it can systematize very well. and then it totally comes full circle when doing this can help Fe deliver something meaningful to the world..! ^^
|
|
shieru
New Member
Posts: 24
Type: TiNe
|
Post by shieru on Sept 4, 2016 2:11:45 GMT
I ran across this video today and it reminded me of this thread:
He seems to be explaining the same dichotomy we were discussing, about simultaneous curiosity into many different topics, but also specificity of Ti which leads to desire for a fully accurate/masterful concept of something. I think he also has a pretty concise description of the roles Si and Fe play in the TiNe psyche.
|
|
|
Post by amsterdam on Oct 3, 2016 17:08:12 GMT
I've been looking more and more into UX Design, and I think it may be an excellent fit for the TiNe. Check this out as a primer, but know there's a lot more similar articles out there:
The UX Psychologist
An interesting quote from the article: "UX is a human-human interaction science, and how humans relate to one another is through cognition. There is no objective truth, everything we accept as reality is really just the world being filtered through our personal mental model." --pretty sure the author meant to say "our personal cognitive type"
(While I don't think the author is trying to manipulate users for devious purposes and it could have just been the words/tone used in ways the author didn't intend, but I was a little uncomfortable with some of the article, mostly within the "Experimental Analysis of Behavior" section. Otherwise, very interesting!)
|
|